Dec 20, 2013

Friday, December 20, 2013, David J. Kahn

Theme: Arthur Wynne Tribute 2

Well after the earlier puzzle this week, I read up on the first puzzle and it really paid off.  For those of you who need to read more like I did, here is the LINK. Back when Mr. Kahn was introduced to us in 2010, C.C. advised that he was master at tribute puzzles 2010. This is only his second LAT since the Tribune Media switched, though he has 155 published NYT puzzles. I love how he included clues and fill from Mr. Wynne's classic effort. The inclusion of original grid spanners made this very interesting and solvable. I found it very easy, in places, and hard in others. Obviously some of what people knew 100 years ago was tricky but let's get on with the show.

The nine repeats:
1A. *A bar of wood or iron (one of nine starred clues/answers that appear here exactly as they did in the first crossword puzzle) : RAIL. (4). Not an easy start for me.

35A. *A talon : SERE. (4). Maybe this was common knowledge in 1913, but I never knew of this meaning for SERE.

62A. *To govern : RULE. (4) An easy one.

27D. *An aromatic plant : NARD.(4). Another old timey word I think; back when we began the current era, wiki says this plant was used as the base for an expensive perfume

35D. *Part of a ship : SPAR. (4). I will let our experts comment.

36D. *A bird : DOVE. (4).  This appeared twice in the 1st puzzle, and in this one 53D. *A pigeon : DOVE. (4).

39D. *The fibre of the gomuti palm : DOH. Certainly more interesting than Homer Simpson, but I did not know this fact. When the clue reappeared the reviewer said it was 'stupidly HARD.'

55D. *Opposed to less : MORE. Do you think we will get more Tributes tomorrow, the actual anniversary? Any thoughts?


The theme originals:
17A. Feature of the first crossword puzzle, seen in 56-Across on 12/21/1913 : SYMMETRICAL GRID. (15).

36A. Like the first crossword puzzle : DIAMOND SHAPED.(13).

56A. See 17-Across : THE NEW YORK WORLD. (15) Like many newspapers, long gone.

Across:

5. Assuming that : IF SO.

9. Disastrous : FATAL.

14. Dashiell Hammett dog : ASTA. A variation on the Nick and Nora Charles clues.

15. It may follow eleven : NOON. Once a day, actually.

16. Dumb : INANE. Ok, that comment was...

20. Red Cross supply : PLASMA. I wondered why they make TVs from blood stuff? Anyway, this is the 4th form of matter with liquid, solid and gas.

21. Fix, as a knot : RE TIE. Why are shoelaces always too long.

22. Opinion : SAY. This actually was not immediately apparent to me. I do not like 3 letter fill that takes time.

23. Letter string : BCD. Oops, two in a row.

25. Agent's clients : TALENT. They hope.

29. D.C.'s __ Mall : NATIONAL.

32. What some pros shoot : PAR. Do they have any indoor golf facilities in Nebraska like they do in Buffalo, HG?

33. Spice Girl __ B : MEL.


34. Pianist Templeton : ALEC. No clue but I like his bio as a pianist/satirist like this TUNE. (2:24).

39. Short warning : DON'T.

40. Quart, e.g. : UNIT. Of measure, here.

41. Speaker systs. : PAS. Public Address.

42. Ab __: initially : OVO. Literally from the egg. Less common then ab initio.

43. Reinforcing construction piece : STEEL BAR. Or a very tough place to get a drink.

45. Like some tea : HERBAL.

47. Not fast : EAT. Did this slow you down?

48. Site of the George W. Bush presidential library : SMU. Southern Methodist University. One of the few universities to ever receive the NCAA 'death penalty.' They are back playing, I think June Jones is their coach now.

51. Chan player : OLAND. We have spoken often about this Swedish actor, Warner.

54A. "The door's open" : COME IN. (6) A modern partial clue.

60. __ pants (baggy women's trousers) : HAREM. I will avoid the simple I Dream of Jeannie and use this LINK.

61. Youngest Wilcox child in "Howards End" : EVIE. A wonderful movie and CAST. (2:02).

63. New Eng. campus : UMASS. UCONN's onetime rival and where Bill Cosby got his PhD, in Amherst.

64. Go fast : TEAR. Are tearing through this solve?

65. Arabic for "commander" : EMIR. I did not know this.

Down:

1. Woodworking tools : RASPS. Woodworking is very relaxing.

2. Refuges : ASYLA. Oh oh, technically correct I guess. A Latin Plural.

3. "Possibly" : IT MAY. Or it may not.

4. Takes off : LAMS.

5. Whole : INTACT.

6. With 8-Down, as a welcome change : FOR. 8D. See 6-Down : ONCE.

7. "Bon __" : SOIR. Good night! I had so many others in mind.

9. Of a son or daughter : FILIAL.

10. Broadway supporter : ANGEL. Does anyone see this and not think of the wonderful play/move The Producers? The clecho: 44D. Broadway supporter : BACKER.

11. Paving substance : TAR.

12. "Wheel of Fortune" buy : AN I.

13. Took by the hand : LED.

18. Preserve, in a way : EMBALM. The concept of preserving dead tissue is kind of odd, don't you think?

19. Stick on : ATTACH.

24. Two-time Oscar winner Wiest : DIANNE. I linked her in Hannah and Her Sisters a few weeks ago.

26. Sporting weapons : EPEES.

28. Crowd at Lake Como? : TRE. Italian for three.


29. In order : NEAT. Just like Tin's scotch.

30. Number from the past : OLDIE. Not ETHER, a musical one.

31. Baby Ruth maker : NESTLE. N E S T L E S spells CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCLATE!! 

33. Unimportant : MINOR.

37. Not allow : OUTLAW.

38. "This Is 40" director Judd : APATOW. The modern king of sophomoric comedy.

43. "__ Lot": King novel : SALEM'S.

46. 2002 Alice Sebold best-seller "The Lovely __" : BONES.  made into a MOVIE.(2:43)/ Also a good cast.

48. Flu fighter : SERUM.

49. Pop's __ Vanilli : MILLI. The disgraced duo.

50. Hypnotized : UNDER.

52. Putin put-down? : NYET. A rare Russian word.

56. Calendar abbr. : THU.

57. One acting badly : HAM. A pork repeat from yesterday.

58. Time worth remembering : ERA.

59. Small inlet : RIA.

Well I hope you all enjoyed this look back in time, and let me know how you would do a tribute puzzle for this anniversary. Nice to see you again Mr. Kahn, stop by anytime. For the rest, Lemonade, off to to Denver and have happy holidays all.


87 comments:

Barry G. said...

Morning, all!

All right, this one got me. With clues like "The fibre of the gomuti palm" for DOH and "Talon" for SERE, it's a wonder crosswords ever became popular...

I did manage to get through most of it, but crashed and burned on the crossing of EVIE (total unknown) and DOVE (which I knew couldn't be right because we already had DOVE elsewhere). Went with EDIE/DOPE. I'd cry foul, except that having a messed up crossword is part of the theme, I guess.

Is anybody else having a harder time reading the capchas? Lately I have to refresh two or three times just to get one I can figure out...

[Jlvmosa]

thehondohurricane said...

Well, I have nothing good to say about this beauty, so i won't say anything.

Barry, a DNF? A rarity for you.

4466436

Al Cyone said...

I somehow managed to get about 95% done before turning on the red letters to see what I had gotten wrong. Surprisingly, nothing. Yet. So I made some WAGs (e.g. DOH, NARD) and, remarkably, guessed right. So not technically a DNF but, still, not a satisfying completion.

And, with apologies if this has already been linked, click here for a story about crosswords on NPR's Morning Edition.

[14:50]

Montana said...

Like Lemon said, this puzzle was easy in places and hard in others. I used red letter help.

If I had done the original puzzle, I would not have gotten SERE, NARD, DOH and I wouldn't have believed I needed to enter DOVE a second time.

Have a good weekend,

Montana

desper-otto said...

Good morning!

Tough, tough, tough. But doable. I looked at that second DOVE for a long time, but since both clues had stars, I figured maybe the no dupes rule came later. I must have seen NARD before, because it popped right out of my pen. Fortunately, I totally missed the "talon" clue. SERE was a perfectly nice cw word, so it got a pass.

I was buying an E from Sajak at first, since so many words end in ED. Nope. "In order" started out as SO AS, making DON'T slow to appear.

This is the Baby Ruth I remember. Curtiss was also the original maker of Butterfinger.

Nice shoutout to me at 56D -- my initials.

Later...

Montana said...

Barry, I have thought the same about the blurrier Captchas. I first thought it was an iPad thing, but used my laptop the other day, and I still had to refresh half a dozen times to get a readable one.

Montana

unclefred said...

Unlike many of the folks who participate in this blog,I am NOT a good CW solver. I struggle mightily. I managed to finish this one, but took 48 minutes and had to Google about a dozen times. For you folks who are really good solvers, using Google would make it a DNF, but for me, it is the only way I can get 'er done. Oh well, I do the best I can, and have fun with it. Nice write up today, Lemonade!

Mari said...

Good morning everybody.

This was definately a DNF for me. I just couldn't finish the NW corner. SYMMETRICAL GRID would have saved me, but yikes! What a clue!

I liked:
- 15A: It may follow eleven: NOON, and
- 47A: Not fast: EAT

I drink a lot of tea, but don't usually go for the HERBAL variety.

I perped DOH, SERE, and EVIE.

Have a great weekend!

Husker Gary said...

What a treat to work this puzzle replete with a tribute, cross references, slightly archaic language and grid spanning theme fill. I too had glanced at the 12/21/13 puzzle and had some sense of its non-rectangular shape and that helped.

Musings
-Lemon’s summation paragraph works for me
-Initially had to be OVO and this DOH seems more elegant than, well, you know…
-Dorothy Kilgallen who was mentioned so prominently in the JFK assassination anniversary worked for another defunct NY paper – The New York Evening Journal
-Hammer’s literary dog was not filmdom’s male Fox Terrier but a female Schnauzer
-TV’s most infamous AGENT (1:56)
-Lemon, I do have this this indoor winter facility 15 minutes away
-Songs with DON’T in the title. Hello again Orlons’ earworm (2/3 of the way down).
-HAREM pants are fine but today’s fashion is the exact opposite
-Alternative use for TAR
-With all that is tolerated in modern music. MILLI VANILLI’s lip synching seems so MINOR
-What musical instrument was “…having his big fat SAY?”

Argyle said...

The following is a representation of me vs. the puzzle. Danny O'Day plays my part.
Quik ad

desper-otto said...

Husker, I want to say it's a bassoon, but you don't have a bassoon in a marching band, do you?

CrossEyedDave said...

I never heard of "nard," yet, strangely, Spikenard seems familiar...

Irish Miss said...

Good Morning:

This was a DNF for me. I misread the clue for 1A to mean all the starred answers had something to do with "Rail.". Sere, nard, and the two doves really had me confused, but Lemony cleared it all up quite nicely. Thanks, David, for a challenging and worthy tribute to Mr. Wynne.

Some days the captchas are as clear as can be and other days I think I need new glasses. Today's is the former.

Have a fun Friday.

HeartRx said...

Good morning all!

Wow, this was a real toughie for me. I actually tried solving the first puzzle a while ago, but got caught by NARD. And it tripped me up again in this one...DOH, you'd think I would learn!

I really enjoyed your write-up, Lemonade. And the Sousa/Strauss waltz was priceless!

Hmmm, tomorrow is the actual anniversary of the crossword puzzle, but it is a Saturday. So I bet there will not be a theme. Well, there was no theme in the first one, either, so I guess that's appropriate!

Gotta run!

Lucina said...

Hello, friends! Safe travels, Lemonade.

Yowza! What a great tribute to the Crossword Puzzle! Thank you, Arthur Wynne, wherever you are.

I liked this very much though it took every across/down fill to complete. Once I had a few perps the theme answers took shape. Luckily there has been enough publicity about this event to provide information even about the inclusion of DOH in the original puzzle.

Of course, I didn't recall that bit and could not accept DOVE two times and went with DOPE on 53D, not knowing EVIE and EPIE sounded good.

Had I thought about it more AB OVO would have eventually entered my mind, but I didn't so DNF for me. But then I'm an OLDIE and don't think as I once did.

Yesterday I baked a chocolate cake but didn't use NESTLE.

I agree about the captchas. Some are impossible to read and have to be refreshed many times over.

Have a wonderful Friday, everyone, and try not to TEAR around too much! Mani day for me but no pedi; it's too cold for sandals.

Tinbeni said...

Lemon: Thank you for explaining all my 'white-spaces'...
Done in by my 'personal Natick' SERE (crossing) NARD.
(Plus I was 'in-the-weeds' trying to get SYMMETRICAL GRID ... which is obvious ... NOW!).

V-8 can smack when NOON finally appeared. Great clue!

My fave today (of course!) was NEAT ... that gives me an idea ...
Cheers!!!

Just Sayin' said...

It is just a shame that the 100th anniversary did not fall on a Monday or Tuesday. Then we could have had a themed tribute puzzle that solvers of all skill levels could enjoy.

Its no fault of David Kahn nor Rich Norris but I did not enjoy this one. There was no aha moment as the entire theme was revealed with the very first clue! No sparkly fill. Overall, just seemed very forced. Major, major nit was why did they choose to use DOVE twice?

My tribute idea, Lemon?

I would have ignored current puzzle guidelines and created a grid that looks identical to the solved grid in Lemon's link, utilizing a gazillion cheater/helper squares. Fill would include WYNNE, FUN, DOVE(because Art liked it so much), CROSS and WORD. Would also keep DOH but would change moral to MOREL.

As for NARD: Wolfman's got NARDs!



Anonymous said...

Google Doodle just came up with a tribute puzzle!!

A commenter on the other blog mentioned a noon surprise with a famous partner. Guess this is it!!

Yellowrocks said...

I worked the puzzle while cooling my heels at the County Surrogate's Office. I was sure that many of my answers were wrong, but they all matched the solution when I came here.
I knew NARD, so SERE was all perps. I see that it is obsolete. DOH was also all perps. I was sure there couldn’t be two DOVEs, but I let them stand. APATOW was also all perps I seldom agree with the complaint that abbreviations should be indicated in the clues. But this time I think SMU should have been marked. . These things made today’s puzzle a real challenge, but fun.
Isn’t is strange that
NOT FAST could be LOOSE. The sign post was not FAST in the ground
FAST could also be LOOSE. The slutty girl was LOOSE with her favors.

Bill G. said...

A good Friday morning to all of you.

I started this late last night, did my best and then had to turn on red letters if I was ever going to finish. I think this was the hardest Friday puzzle I can remember. I would have had an even harder time if I hadn't just heard about the clue for DOH, didn't know the original grid was diamond-shaped, etc. I was off to a bad start with RAIL as the first fill. Still, I appreciate the effort and the good intentions of this tribute puzzle. I got it finished and was pleased with my effort.

Gary, I remember Bebe and always enjoy the reruns of Frasier. What great writing and comedic acting!

I remember Dorothy Kilgallen from old TV game shows like What's My Line. I didn't find her likeable even in that pleasant format.

Husker Gary said...

Musings 2
-Right Otto:
There were copper bottom tympani in horse platoons,
thundering, thundering, all along the way.
Double bell euphoniums and big bassoons,
each bassoon having his big fat SAY.

-I had a great time with George Barany’s NY Times puzzle yesterday, uh, after I figured out the gimmick.
-JD, if I had known you were going to Kaui, I would have had you get in contact with Chef Wendy. She lives on the north side of the island near Ben Stiller who found her dog when he ran away.
-Uncle Fred, there is a big difference between DNF (but had fun) and RTL – Refused To Learn. Good for you!
-Homophone riddle fun:
1. What is a great accomplishment performed with the ends of your legs?
2. What is a reddish-purple vegetable that is all worn out?
3. What do you say in the evening to a soldier in shining armor?
4. What do you call rabbit fur?
5. What are groups of sailors on an ocean pleasure trip?
6. What would you call a large, furless animal?
7. What is a group of musicians that isn’t allowed to play?
8. What do you call an all-beef track and field event?
9. What is the name for a weird street of shops that sell incredible things?
10. If they are not here, where are they?
-More of the same

Misty said...

I can't believe it, but I got the WHOLE thing! I was sure the two DOVEs were going to be wrong, and the Natick SERE/NARD was a total guess. I just can't believe it all worked out, practically by accident! Yay! Thank you, David, for a challenging and fun Friday, and you too, Lemonade.

My favorite clue: CROWD AT LAKE COMO. I had a grant to spend a month in Bellagio on Lake Como once, in November, and I sure don't remember any crowds. Then it hit me--THREE'S A . . . Yes, TRE.

Alice Sebold was a graduate student in my university's graduate writing program many years ago. Nice when they succeed like that.

Know MEL B only from her role as a judge on "Dancing with the Stars"--one of our favorite TV programs.

Unclefred, good for you! Glad to see you on the blog.

Have a great Friday, everybody!

OwenKL said...

GOOGLE it's interactive! A hand-written font even!
Air Force SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape) tools
Sere = August/Autumn
DOH = I think Wynne was using it the same sense as Homer does -- "Ya got me!" The fiber of the Gomuti palm is "gomuti" or "sago".

Weekend Reader said...

Lemonade, a small nit -

Bon soir - good night ? You are only 50% correct ...

Technically, and literally ...... Bonsoir , one word , generally means "good evening", a greeting, at the beginning (of a party, say).

Bonsoir, could mean "good night", when your guests are leaving.

Bon soir .... 2 words ... Is just commenting on the weather ,.. Best left to meteorologists ..


Bon nuit .... Meaning good night .... Is considered rather personal .... To family members ...( I'm going to close my bedroom door, and pull up the sheets, now, OK ?)

Or to lovers ... Particularly if of the opposite sex ... No, cross that out .... Even of the same sex. ( subliminal message ; ... Want to cuddle upto, with me ?).

Do not say Bon nuit to your guests, at the end of the party, when you want them to leave.

It's all very complicated , so if you're not born speaking French, ... Try an easier language .... Say, Urdu.

Yellowrocks said...

Learning moment for today.
Arenga Pinnata is another name for gomuti palm. Wiki says, "The dark fibrous bark (known as doh) is manufactured into cordage.”

Link DOH

William Bottenberg said...

What a great puzzle! - fun to do and had that old timey flavor. A fitting tribute.

Got everything except the pesky 'r' at the intersection of nard and sere - but many ink blotches around 'bcd' but I bulled through that mess finally. Are there any other inkers out there?

Yesterday's had few blotches and the satisfied feeling of completion.

PK said...

Interesting puzzle, David Kahn. Not as hard as I first thought. I got the long ones early which helped a lot. As usual, I solved with the red letters on. (Don't apologize, Uncle Fred. This is a project to be completed, not a semester test.)

Good one, Lemonade. I bet Alec Templeton drove his piano teacher nuts.

I knew MEL B but not OLAND, DIANNE/ALEC, APATOW or EVIE.

I read The Lovely BONES. Such an odd book, I wasn't sure I liked it.

SpikeNARD grows in the Himalayas. Huh, how many of us have picked flowers there?

Not fast: EAT? EAT? EAT? Oh, DOH! Not fasting has got me in a lot of trouble.

Yellowrocks, what on earth is a County Surrogate? We don't have an official with a title like that out here. I'm betting it's not a surrogate mother type thing.

desper-otto said...

PK@12:36 -- I was going to ask YR that same question. Maybe it's something like an ombudsman?

Legalese said...

Link County Surrogate, NJ

Last paragraphs give Functions of the Surrogate's office.

Abejo said...

Good afternoon, folks. Thank you, David J. Kahn, for an excellent puzzle. Thank you, Lemonade, for the fine review.

Well, this one really got my attention, once I figured out the theme, which was at 1A. Took me over two hours to finish. Thank goodness I used the IPad. Otherwise I would have had an inky paper.

First theme answer was THE NEW YORK WORLD.

Then I wanted ONE WORD ANSWER for 36A. However, that did not work so I started again there. And, with a bunch of perps and a couple wags I arrived at DIAMOND SHAPED.

The 17A was a little tougher. After a while I had METRICAL. ASYLA gave me SYM and then I wagged GRID. SYMMETRICAL GRID. Those three were a big help to the rest of the puzzle.

Two DOVEs was perplexing, but I figured that may have applied 100 years ago.

Liked EMBALM. I do hope I skip that process for a while.

IT MAY at 2D took me a while. I had to run the alphabet in my head and stopped at T.

I printed the original puzzle that Lemonade had linked and am going to make copies for a meeting I am going to tonight, to hand out to my friends. St. Bridget Council #23.

D-O. I thought your initials were D-O. Now I know THU.

Lemonade, make sure you have some Craft Beer in Colorado! Don't you dare drink a Coors.

I am looking forward to tomorrow's puzzle. I bet it will be tied to the 100th somehow. Maybe Sunday as well.

See you tomorrow.

Abejo

(account ndlystat)



Tinbeni said...

William Bottenberg @12:35
I've always been a "Rorschach Ink Blot" solver.
On newsprint, in black ink.

There are quite a few of us luddites here who prefer to solve on paper.

I don't think I have solved on the computer more than a couple times.

john28man said...

Thank you Lemon and David. I looked at 17A for the longest time until SYMMMETRICAL came to mind which made the NW difficult. I was also stumped by the cross of DOH & OVO which made this a DNF.

Anonymous said...

The double dove threw me for awhile too. Some of you reported very plausible a Epie/Dope solution. I worked on avoiding the 2nd occurrence from the other end, filling in dame for the 36d's bird clue. I had Halt for 39a until minor in 33d killed this train of thought.

1a also gave me some grief, having initially filled in club (golf) there.

Fortunately I knew nard as an old-timey crossword term, like esme, which we almost never see anymore. Even so, "Doh" and "sere" as clued were total unknowns.

It could have been worse though, had the constructor included the two other hard-to-crack gems from that first crossword puzzle. I'm referring to the following clues and answers: one = tane, and
fist = neif.

Lucina said...

William Bottenberg:
I have always solved on paper with pencil because I hate messes when solving a crossword.

Anonymous said...

Yes, pen and paper is the way I solve too. Much more satisfying for me. I occasionally resort to a 2nd pen color for my blotchier overwrites on the later weekdays.

Jazzbumpa said...

Hi gang -

The Freep has home delivery THU, Fri, and Sun, with the LAT puzzle on THU and Fri, and Boston Globe on Sun.

I prefer paper and pencil solving.

As much as I like the idea of a tribute puzzle, I wound up not liking this effort vary much. It would have been a DNF even without the inexcusable DOVE duplication. NW corner and a couple of other naticks got me.

Talon = SERE is just mean. Ditto DOH!

Loved the brilliant Templeton link, but the clue is simply gratuitous obscurity.

I don't mind losing, but I want a fair fight.

Cool regards!
JzB

ARBAON said...

Today, we will live in the moment...unless it is not pleasant...in which case, we will eat a cookie, or a dozen and use lots more commas.

Bumppo said...

Yellowrocks @11:28: What a great day for us to agree, at last. Yes, SMU needed a hint of abbreviation, and the W. in "George W. Bush" does not suffice. Maybe if the clue had been "Site of the W presidential library" . . . .

PK said...

My day was brightened by the arrival of two dozen gorgeous red and white roses in Christmas greenery. I've never had that many roses all together at one time in my life. My farmer and his wife very thoughtfully sent them as a Christmas gift. I turned off the TV and just sat and looked at them.

The other good news from my house is that we haven't got the freezing rain the weatherman threatened us with. YET!

Keith Fowler said...

Happily I did the old timey puzzle when we were first led to it last week. I didn't like some of the answers then (SERE?) and don't care much for them now - but at least I knew them.

Who would have guess that the original Xword allowed for repeated answers, e.g., DOVE and DOVE?

But "Not fast" = EAT was fun, wasn't it? Not one of the oldies.

Anonymous said...

@Rose

A lovely spirited turn of phrase, but what the heck does it mean?!

Dudley said...

Hello Puzzlers -

Managed a legitimate no-peeky, but it was definitely a struggle. Like others I doubted the double Dove, but those perps looked solid enough. I was thinking Curtiss for Baby Ruth's, having no idea it was a Nestlé product nowadays. Never much liked Baby Ruths, myself.

Husker - I see I'm too late to give that bassoon answer. I can't recall seeing anyone marching with a bassoon, but it has been done. It would be darned hard to get a good sound out of it. The player would have to take care not to collide with the delicate reed or its thin tubular mount, called the "bocal".

Hand up for having more trouble reading the Captcha.

ARBAON said...

Anon @ 4:31...You know my first name so you aren`t really an anon. To me it means the same thing as: If life deals you lemons, you make a meringue pie! The crack about commas was to crank up the grammarians.

ARBAON said...

Rose, since you are not 'blue', how are we to know that you are really you. Hence, you too are an anon.

OwenKL said...

Sort of a DNF for me. The last thing I filled was the P in APATOW/PAS with a pure WAG. I was expecting a brand name for PAS, and it wasn't until I read Lemon's analysis that I realized it was an abbreviation I should have known.

I think DOH and SERE and the ones @1:31 mentioned, TANE and NEIF, were words Wynne just made up definitions for, but because of the fame (or notoriety) of this puzzle, have since crept in to a few glossaries, like the Wiki that YR found. Picture the circumstance. No one had ever made a proper crossword before. The first time you tried (or would try) to construct one, even with your experience and modern reference material, how good was it? How many hours or even days did it take? But this was reportedly a last-minute fill for an ephemeral children's page. May as well play sniglets with it.

The two doves -- I was familiar with the original puzzle, so I knew DOVE had been included twice in it. When I got the first one, I wondered why there wasn't some note on it about that. When I got to the second, I saw why. I think it was a great solution to one of the signal oddities of that first puzzle!

ARBAON said...

My scintillating wit identifies me, doesn`t it?

Jayce said...

Hello everybody. Well, I feel rather like some of you in that I didn't enjoy this puzzle very much. Hand up for having a Natick at the R crossing of SERE and NARD. I also misspelled Mr. Warner Oland's name as ELAND which gave me BENES instead of BONES. Ah, well.
Best wishes to you all.

ARBAON said...

Anon.

What I meant to say was my brilliant, dazzling, exhilarating, glittering, shining, stimulating et.al. wit. ---- more than makes up for my inane, mundane, cryptic message.

This is just in case you don't understand the meaning of the word, scintillating.

On to the cookie comma corner.

Here I come.

Anonymous said...

When life, dealing you lemons, doesn't provide, as needed, or not, if you're a tart lover, the sugar, you still can't, unless, of course, you're that tart lover, make lemonade.

PK said...

C'mon guys, stop it.

ARBAON said...

I am the real ARBAON !

How dare you ?

Anonymous said...


Sugar or not, I love tarts - know where I could get hold of a couple of live ones ?

OwenKL said...

Can we get those two trolls banned, maybe even erased?

Anyway, more on the Google Doodle. I didn't notice the theme until I read one of the follow-up articles and found the completed puzzle was also a word-find. I found 8 forward, 4 R-to-L or diagonal, and 1 or 2 right-angled. Did I miss any?

Argyle said...

I don't think right angles count. Go here and see if you match up with what I found.

ARBAON said...

The real ARBAON would know what the letters in the name stand for... would not chastise or embarrass anyone. or be muddled or indiscrete.

Friendly visitor said...



Argyle, you are a profound genius.

Wow !!!

What a word hound, with such a delightful dedicated passion.

Such FUN ! 12. FUNs. In 2012. I am in great awe.

ARBAON 2 said...

A. Rose. By. Any. Other. Name ....( would smell, just as sweet.)

Yellowrocks said...

Owen, your web page overwhelms me. Could you please email me with just a simple email address?
You seem to be involved in everything. Where do you find the time?

This Arbaon nonsense illustrates the best reason for going blue. You will not compromise your identity in any way. What you reveal about yourself will be at your own discretion Your identity will not be compromised and trolls cannot pretend to be you.

windhover said...

ARBAON - Give 'em hell (both of you). :)
Abejo - Yes to No on Coors. :)
At first I thought "no way", then I started to chip away, and finally, thought I'd whipped it. Then I came here and saw I'd left out the 'R' in nard/sere. I didn't know either in any case, so it whipped me after all.
(There you have it: my first actual puzzle comment in years. It'll be at least that long before the next.)
Technically the following does not qualify:
Re: the computer/pen/pencil discussion; I've only solved online a few times, usually when the Irish and I visit her relatives in NC. If I had to do that every day I'd quickly lose interest. Pen solving for me, though I often (usually) have write overs.
Merry Christmas and whatever other celebrations, religious and otherwise, you plan to indulge.

TTP said...

Good early evening all !

Tough puzzle. Might have been able to solve it on another day, but not this day.

Called the credit card company after considering that I had shopped Tar-zhay a couple of times since Thanksgiving for last minute Christmas gifts.

Thought it might be wise to go ahead and just get a replacement card issued with a new number.

All well and good until I scanned the snail mail. There, amidst the holiday cards, was a mailing from a big bank with the PIN number for my new card. I hadn't applied for a new card from the big bank. I've never done business with this big bank. I sure as heck didn't have a new card from this big bank.

Have you ever tried to work your way through telephone VRU hell just to get to someone named "Maria" (with an accent that sounds nothing like a Maria) who must work in a call center in some far off subcontinent, and who can't seem to understand why you are concerned that you got a new PIN notice when you don't have an account with them ?

Finally got transferred to their fraud department and spoke to somebody that wasn't reading from some script.

You try to do the right thing and notify them. Fine. I've notified them as best I can. Then made the call to the credit reporting agencies and put my credit file on fraud alert.

kjinkc said...

Forgive if someone else has asked, but on the Google puzzle, was anything supposed to happen when it's completed, like ta-da? I think I got it all but kept waiting for something to happen.

WEES - can't read captcha

Enjoyed the tribute puzzle and glad I reviewed the original earlier which made today's a bit easier to solve.

Argyle said...

Yes, you should get a trophy and Congratulations. If you didn't then you've missed something.

Just Sayin' said...

The Google tribute puzzle was an enjoyable solve.

The backstory was interesting as to the diamond grid.

The most important tribute inclusion, as I alluded to before, was FUN. How that entry could be left out of a tribute puzzle is baffling to me.

I'm sorry to be so harsh, but I think the LAT dropped the ball on this one. Crossword puzzles should first be enjoyable and today's effort had no FUN in it. Not one clue or entry brought even a grin to my face.

kjinkc said...

Argyle- Thanks, I had 'log' for 'leg' on stocking stuffer and that made amuse, amuso...DOH!

Lucina said...

Doing the Google puzzle convinced me that I'll never go to on line solving. It takes too long! I could have finished in half the time or less on paper.

Bill G. said...

Lucina, what you said makes perfect sense to me (as always). I started solving CWs regularly only about five years ago. The ones I started with were the Universal puzzles edited by Timothy Parker(??) that I found on my homepage. When things got too hard, I could turn on red letters to show me where I had gone wrong. Since I started that way, I have kept at it though I'm sure I could go faster with pencil and paper.

willow said...

loILeaartificEnjoy this & Goggle puzzle today, but how do you know if you got G puzzle right?

kjinkc said...

willow ...see Argyle @8:04PM for solution.

Confused solver said...



Argyle, help me

I can't find the google doodle ...

I have an IPad, and I see the center of the google doodle, but it doesn't move up or down. If I click on it, all it gives me is the following page on the derails of the inventor.Wynne.

Maybe my IPad is to blame ? Is the doodle supposed to expand and show the entire crossword ? I've looked at many other sites, but they don't gave the google doodle puzzle ... Only the description thereof.

Thanks, in advance.

willow said...

Just went back to the Goggle puzzle, changed 1 letter & got the Ta-da!

Argyle said...

Now find the twelve FUN.

Argyle said...

9:59, It is suppose to expand so it is probable an iPad problem. Does it have an arrow in the middle of the screen?

Any other iPad users out there?

Manac said...

Lucina, I started doing the LA Times Xword puzzles by accident when we were at a softball tournament one weekend and I just grabbed the local paper to kill the time. Not a good way to start doing Saturdays LA times xwords.
Took me all day to finish it but the pen and paper solve was always so gratifying.

Alas, I admit I solve online now and will admit to a DNF. Today was a
Big DNF!

Let's see what tomorrow brings:)

kjinkc said...

Argyle, just FYI, I had already found the 12 FUN...very clever I thought.

OwenKL said...

13 THIRTEEN! Argyle, I missed the hopper from AFF UNI, but you missed one that started from the same F and headed NW!
NORM
DUE
ARF

Anonymous said...

Wow. Merl Reagle.

fermatprime said...

Greetings!

Thanks for interesting puzzle and expo, David and Lemonade!

What Tin said about SERE and NORD.

Lucina: Do you tab from word to word and double click to change directions? The Google puzzle had the feature that you do not have to type letters twice also! (It skipped them.) Wish LAT had this feature at my site.

Cheers!

Lucina said...

fermat:
Alas,no. That was my one and only time solving on line because it was a Google doodle. No doubt you all who solve that way have developed some technique to speed up the process. It's not my way at all.

River Doc said...

Happy Friday everybody!

WEES on the arcane cluing in today's 100th anniversary eve puzzle, but it was still kinda cool to have to connects to the original xword….

About the ARBAON idiocy from earlier today, seriously, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot…?

One thing I’ve learned is that it’s WAY too easy these days to be cruel (or even unusual) from behind the curtain. That having been said, a word of caution to the snarks - you’re not always as anonymous as you may think you are. Case in point: recent revelations from Mr. Snowden….

My advice to the Corner crew is to simply disregard the vitriol. Life’s too short to waste valuable oxygen defending against ghost posters….

Just keep reminding yourself, “If ignorance is bliss, then some people must be very, very happy….”

Bill G. said...

Rats! The Saturday LAT puzzle isn't showing up on any of the online sites. I always need a head start on Saturdays and Sundays. Rats!

kjinkc said...

Bill G. - I just finished it on the LA Times website...it's a surprise and that's all I'll say as to not get in trouble. I can post a link if you can't find it.

kjinkc said...

Bill G. Saturday puzzle

aka thelma said...

Bill - I can't even get the mensa site to come up :) good luck to you...

Wishing you all wonderful holidays.... :)

thelma

kjinkc said...

Mensa is not loading but LA Times is...granted you have to watch a 30 sec ad to get it.

Anonymous T said...

Hey all! - Like TTP, I didn't have enough time today. It wasn't a Target Tangle, I'm still learning the ropes at the new job (it's like drinking from a firehose).

I did get DOH (39d) thanks to the program I linked to last night (I can be taught!), but not much else -- too little time suss it all out. The NE & SE (plus 36a) is pretty much all I got. Total DNF.

Really, I just came here to catch up with my puzzle pals.

Cheers, -T
As to pen v. E-solvers - I like print w/ a 0.5mm tipped pen. Yes, Wed to Sat is mostly ink-blots :-)

Anonymous said...

I thought this would be a fun one. It wasn't. Really obscure stuff from the old puzzle then names and titles to fill in. Give me real words I can figure out not names that make it hopeless. Real pet peeve of mine.

Lemonade714 said...

In Denver, interesting day of comments. Thanks